I’ve seen five different authors take down, or prepare to take down, their posted works on Ao3 this week. At the same time, I’ve seen several people wishing there was more new content to read. I’ve also seen countless posts by authors begging for people to leave comments and kudos.
People tell me I am a big name fan in my chosen fandom. I don’t quite get that but for the purposes of this post, let’s roll with it. On my latest one shot, less than 18% of the people who read it bothered to hit the kudos button. Sure, okay, maybe that one sort of sucked. Let’s look at the one shot posted before that – less than 16% left kudos. Before that – 10%, and then 16%. I’m not even going to get into the comments. Let’s just say the numbers drop a lot. I’m just looking at one shots here so we don’t have to worry about multiple hits from multiple chapters, people reading previous chapters over, etc. And if I am a BNF, that means other people are getting significantly less kudos and comments.
Fandom is withering away because it feels like people don’t care about the works that are posted. Why should I go to the trouble of posting my stories if no one reads them, and of the people who do read them, less than a fifth like them? Even if you are not a huge fan of the story, if it kept your attention long enough for you to get to the bottom, go ahead and mash that kudos button. It’s a drop of encouragement in a big desert.
TL;DR: Passively devouring content is killing fandom.
Reblogging again
So much this
You know, kudos and comments are much beloved by all esp. yrs truly, but I have to say: I’ve been posting fic for 20 years, and I have never in my entire life had a story stay above a 1:9 kudos to hits ratio (or comments to hits, back when kudo wasn’t an option). Usually they don’t stay above 1:10, once they’ve been around for a few weeks.
I also have a working background in online marketing. In social media 1:10 is what you would call a solid engagement score, when people actually care about your product (as opposed to “liking” your Facebook page so they could join a contest or whatever). If BNFs are getting 1:5 – and I do sometimes see it – that is sky-high engagement. Take any celebrity; take Harry Styles, who has just under 30M followers and doesn’t tweet all that often. He regularly gets 3-400K likes, 1-200K retweets. I’ve seen him get up to just under 1M likes on a tweet. That’s a 1:30 engagement ratio, for Harry Styles, and though some of you guys enjoy my fics and have said so, I don’t think you have as lasting a relationship with my stories as Harry Styles’s fans do with him. XD;
Again, this is not to say we, as readers, should all go home and not bother to kudo or comment or engage with fic writers. That definitely is a recipe for discouraging what you want to see in future. But this is not the first post I’ve seen that suggests a 20% kudo ratio is the equivalent of yelling into the void, and I’m worried that we as writers are discouraging ourselves because our expectations are out of whack.
I think about this a lot, because it’s important to know what a realistic goal to expect from an audience is, even though I admit it definitely is kind of depressing when you look at the numbers. I was doing reading on what sort of money you can expect to make from a successful webcomic, and the general rule of thumb seems to be that if your merchandising is meshing well with your audience, about 1% will give you merch. I imagine ‘subscribe to patreon’ also falls in this general range.
Stuff that is ONLY available for dollars are obviously going to have a different way of measuring this, but when it comes to ‘If people can consume something without engaging back in any fashion (hitting a like button, buying something, leaving a comment)’ the vast majority will.
And as a creator that is frustrating but as a consumer it’s pretty easy to see how it happens. I have gotten steadily worse at even liking posts, much less leaving comments on ones I enjoy, since I started using tumblr. It’s very difficult to engage consistently. I always kudo on any fanfic I read and comment on the vast majority, but then again I don’t read a lot of fanfic, if you are someone who browses AO3 constantly/regularly for months or years, I could see how it’s easy to stop engaging. I don’t remember to like every YT video or tumblr fanart I see, much less comment on them.
When we are constantly consuming free content it’s hard to remember to engage with it or what that engagement means to the creators. And lol, honestly that sucks. Certainly as consumers we should be better about it. But also like, as a creator be kinder to yourself by setting a realistic bar of what you can achieve.
And IMO, if numbers matter to you (kudos, comments, etc) be honest about the fact that you CAN improve those things by marketing yourself better. The ‘I just produced my art and put it out there and got insanely popular because it was just so brilliant’ is less than a one a million chance. Lots of amazing content is overlooked every day because there is a lot of good content and a metric fuckton of mediocre to bad content. You can only SORT of judge the quality of your work based on the audience it generates, but if what you WANT is an audience there is way, way, WAY more you can be doing than simply producing whatever you immediately feel like. Marketing yourself is a skill and if you want the benefits of it you have to practice it.
I have a professional background in internet marketing as my day job and a moderate hobby business. My definition for “moderate” is “it pays for itself, keeps me in product, and occasionally buys groceries.”
In the day job, which is for an extremely large global company, there are entire teams of people whose entire purpose of employment is to ensure a 3% conversion rate. That’s it. That is for a Fortune 100 company: the success metric is for 3% of all visitors to a marketing web site to click the “send me more info” link.
My moderate business that pays for itself has a 0.94% conversion rate of views to orders. Less than 1%, and it’s still worth its time – and this is without me bothering to do any marketing beyond instagram and tumblr posts with new product.
I know it feels like no one is paying attention to you and you’re wasting your time if you don’t get everyone clicking kudos or commenting but I promise, I PROMISE, you are doing fantastically, amazingly well with your 10% rate. You probably aren’t going to go viral AND THAT’S FINE. You’re only hurting yourself if you’re expecting a greater return – don’t call yourself a failure, because you’re NOT. You’re just looking at it the wrong way. I promise, you’re lovely just the way you are.
Reblogging this bc it is a take on fan engagement at AO3 that I haven’t seen before, and as a writer I find it helpful to have this reality check. Also I wonder which came first: the overall low engagement rates in internet commerce, or the freaking shit-ton of unwanted spam and advertising we’re constantly bombarded with?
I think as writers our assumption (my assumption anyway) is that the portion of hits that don’t convert to kudos equals the portion of readers who looked at your fic, didn’t like it, and never finished it. But it would seem that is an overly pessimistic assumption.
I should know this, because I ‘like’ very sparingly here and reblog only less sparingly, and yet I read and enjoy a lot of posts I don’t like or reblog.
#also something that is really obvious that none of this points out#(probably someone did somewhere in the notes but I do have a life)#your hit count will go up by virtue of PEOPLE REREADING YOUR FIC#a hit count disproportionate to kudos/comments#which are things that are only really done once #is INEVITABLE#and a GOOD thing #people rereading your fic is a good thing
Tag: FanFic
What are your thoughts on fanfiction authors who start writing and publishing original stuff? As someone who writes fanfic, it means a lot to see that a lot of my favorite authors did/do it too, but it also seems like it brings a LOT of crappy internet abuse with it, because sexism. :/
Hi! My name is Seanan, and I’m a fanfic author.
My first “serious” writing–IE, had a continuity, was not abandoned as soon as it got hard, went through an actual editorial process where a red pen was applied to my precious pages–was for an ElfQuest fanzine called Dreamberry Jam. I wrote about a glider/sea elf cross named Gull, who basically hopped from one disaster to another, because I was a sixteen year old girl with the power of life or death in her pen I WAS UNSTOPPABLE and I was having so much fun. So much fun.
My high school LJ (which became my college LJ, which became my post-college LJ) was studded with Buffy the Vampire Slayer fic (not gonna lie: lots of porn there, much of it written for my girlfriend of the time, who had a thing for Buffy/Faith), with Veronica Mars fic (including my Shakespearean adaptation of season one), with Halloweentown fic (I am most of the fandom). I have participated in every single Yuletide. My agent knows I will turn down work in December so that I can remain a pitch-hitter for defaults.
What are my thoughts on fanfiction authors who start writing and publishing original stuff?
I’m in favor.
But you’re right: people do get some shit for their fannish pasts, and by “people” I mostly mean “women,” because “being a fanfic writer” is a “giggle giggle let’s show porn to the actors and see if they get mad” thing that girls do, while “putting myself in the story” is a manly masculine imagination thing that boys do. Almost every guy in my high school creative writing classes began with a self-insert Trek or Wars character, assuming they weren’t writing up their D&D or World of Darkness campaigns, but they never got the scorn from the teachers or other students that the girls got for admitting that maybe they gave their OCs the hair color they’d always wanted. It goes all the way back to elementary school. It was totally normal for the boys to be racing around BEING STAR WARS PEW PEW PEW, but weird for the girls to want in.
(I know this is gender essentialist, I know, and I’m so sorry about that, but I’m talking about my elementary school experience, where girls would literally be pulled out of aggressive pretend play, and my high school experience, where the boys were encouraged to file off the serial numbers and the girls were told to write what they knew. The lens of the past is dusty and cold.)
Most of the shit I see slung at former fanfic writers (or professional authors who still write fanfic) is thrown at women who write YA, because, well, fanfic is juvenile and YA is juvenile (unless you’re a man writing YA romance and then it’s world-changing and revelationary). They are hence easy targets. You’re right: it’s sexist. It’s unfair. It will, hopefully, decrease and even go away. It will not happen fast enough for people to stop leaving bruises on my friends.
But here is the thing about fanfic: fanfic never dies. From kids playing on the playground to elementary schoolers writing their first stories to adults on the internet, fanfic is the human urge to interface with the stories that make us. A lot of very successful, very powerful works are saved from being fanfic solely by the fact that their source material is no longer under copyright. As the number of those works increases, as the scholarship on and around fanfic increases, the stigma is going to decrease. I genuinely believe that. I look at fandom now and compare it to fandom ten years ago, and I see so much more acceptance of fanfic on both the fannish and professional levels.
Crappy internet abuse aside, fanfic is restorative and powerful and important, and if it’s a thing you enjoy, you should absolutely embrace it with all the joy you can. The abuse may be here for a while yet. I will not lie about that.
But I think our stories are stronger.
“here is the thing about fanfic: fanfic never dies. From kids playing on the playground to elementary schoolers writing their first stories to adults on the internet, fanfic is the human urge to interface with the stories that make us.”
I don’t understand why High School Musical 4 is going to get an entire new cast when all they had to do was set it at Chad and Ryan’s wedding
Sharpay – mellowed out some with age, still struggling to make it big, chronically single – insists she’s happy for Ryan but quickly devolves into her obligatory show-stopper about how she’s sick of waiting to meet someone who’s right for her. (Mostly the song entails Sharpay singing her ridiculously long laundry list of requirements while trying on bedazzled wedding dresses.)
There’s a running gag that Troy is supersupersuper late for the wedding. We may or may not ever actually see him, since Zac Efron didn’t even come to the damn ten year reunion and is apparently a huge party pooper. What we do see is Gabriella on the phone with him every fifteen minutes or so, urging him to hurry up. Eventually she decides that he’s obviously stuck in traffic because he doesn’t care about their friends enough and wonders if she should break up with him. Cue the obligatory once-a-movie Gabriella Is Sad song.
Taylor and Chad are SUPER amicable exes and she’s organizing the entire wedding with an iron fist. Chad and Ryan didn’t have to do anything. Kelsey is on piano. Zeke is baking their cake, obvs.
Troy is SUPPOSED TO BE Chad’s best man, but again, he’s supersupersuper late. At one point while Gabriella’s on the phone with him, Chad runs up behind her and yells “DUDE. GETCHA HEAD IN THE GAME” into the phone.
Sharpay elbows someone in the face to catch the bouquet when it gets thrown. Like, violently. It’s played for laughs, of course, but we all know that Kelsey/Jason/whoever should probably be in the hospital.
Assuming they can lock down Zefron, the movie will inevitably end up being about them. Troy proposed during the damn reception. Gabriella cries. Taylor and Kelsey are screaming. Sharpay is immediately trying to become Gabriella’s best friend and call dibs on being her maid of honor. Ryan looks affronted at this hijacking but nobody notices.
tHE FUCKING WEDDING COLORS ARE WHITE AND RED JUST SO CHAD CAN SCREAM “WILDCATS” AS SOON AS HE’S DONE BEING PRONOUNCED RYAN’S LAWFULLY WEDDED HUSBAND
Sharpay and Zeke reconnect after that moment at the of HSM1 where they were a thing for like 10 seconds. Sharpay Learns a Valuable Lesson about how maybe you don’t need a guy who’s perfectly perfect in every way when you’ve got once who’s a total sweetheart and can bake like a mofo.
Ryan brings some girl he knows from Broadway who’s like his best dancer or something. She spends the entire wedding flirting with Kelsey and making her all flustered. Everyone is trying to get them together.
It ends with an elaborate musical number at the reception. Possibly there’s a self-aware joke about how Ryan emailed everyone the choreography for it months ago, so they all better know it by now. It probably turns into a reprise of We’re All In This Together and then I cry into my popcorn for 6 hours
~the end~
HOW DOES THIS HAVE SO MANY NOTES ARE Y’ALL SERIOUS
holy shit can this happen instead
Chad needs to smash faces with Ryan right after screaming WILDCATS and then they need to leave, come back, and their clothing is swapped!!!!!
This sounds amazing. You have my vote!!
I don’t know who got this post circulating again but I’d like to give them a high five and a milk shake