Tag: tolkien

feynites:

corseque:

I don’t know very many lore details about lotr – never finished return of the king because iirc too many paragraphs about frodo rock climbing – but from time to time I find myself looking for fanfic that humanizes Tolkien’s orcs. Like… fic of lotr Tolkien orc ocs. I’ve never looked up lotr fic about anything else. There’s just something about the idea of an Utterly Evil Monster Race that gets me instantly defensive x 3000

I hate the Evil Monster Race trope, too.

As a lifelong Tolkien fan (books were my mom’s favourites, and my grandma’s before her), I always reconciled the orcs best with the theory that they were elves who had basically been brutalized beyond belief by Morgoth (Sauron’s predecessor) and then by Sauron.

It makes them kind of like darkspawn, in fact. They’re driven towards violence by the malevolent influence of a god or demi-god, which is why their lives are pretty horrible – it’s not that they’re fundamentally lesser, it’s that they have ‘BLOOD RIP KILL DESTROY’ playing on a constant loop in their heads, and that makes it incredibly difficult for them to establish stable communities (on top of them being vitriolically despised and killed-on-sight by every other race in Middle Earth). The fact that, when left without an Evil Overlord to actively command them, orcs can do things like tame wargs and somehow produce food even in hospital places like Mordor, speaks to a remarkable amount of resilience.

And going with the elf theory also means that they’re potentially immortal – or, if they’ve been mixed with humans, that at least some of them are. Makes one wonder if there are any orcs out there whose memory stretches even further back than that of the elves – or at least, the elves still living in Middle Earth. 

But, more importantly, why I like this concept is that there’s an implication that once Sauron is defeated, that there’s really no one with the knowledge to exploit Morgoth’s hold over the orcs left in Middle Earth anymore. They’re basically free. Of course, they’re also contending with the destruction of their homeland, the death of a massive amount of their number, and they’re still the most hated demographic in all of Middle Earth. But there’s a chance that they could withdraw to some place and… heal, mostly.

Every single orc is traumatized. They’ve all spent their lives – whether those are very long lives or not – being subjected to violence and brainwashing and abuse and mutilation. Recovering from that would not be pretty, especially not with limited resources and survival still posing a challenge. But given that Tolkien was largely just concerned with orcs in terms of whether or not they were posing a threat, there’s a lot of leeway even for people trying to stick to his epilogues to step in and speculate on what might have happened after that point.

And personally I like to think that the orcs were able to secure viable regions of territory in several areas, and that they mostly survived by hiding their presence and letting the humans think ‘well, no orcs are running out to attack us here – so there probably aren’t any’ and move along. They focused on surviving and building, mostly, and likely went the dwarven route and figured the best way to hide was to keep their settlements largely underground. Maybe in some places the orcs managed to keep hold of old dwarven strongholds that were otherwise abandoned/forgotten, but in others they probably started to build their own, devising their own techniques but also borrowing from things they’d observed in goblin cities, or places like Moria.

At first they probably acted like they usually did when a Dark Lord had fallen, like they were just waiting for the next one to pop up. But as time passed and it became apparent that things were really different, I would wager they’d begin to experience something of a cultural revolution. Once they were no longer struggling to survive, they’d finally have energy to devote to themselves, rather than to the machinations of some conceited Valar or Maiar. No more living in filth and squalor. No more bloodthirst constantly banging around the backs of their skulls. Their biggest problem would probably be habitual behaviour and unhealthy coping mechanisms, and those are nothing to sneeze at, but it would give an opening for better standards of living to develop, and with more physical comfort and less recurring trauma, the overall stress of living would theoretically go down. The orcish people would finally be able to develop their own culture to serve their own interests. They would have more opportunity to create art, to cultivate traditions, to hone crafts and to establish stronger social ties.

They wouldn’t go back to being elves. They probably wouldn’t want to, either. But they could redefine what being an orc meant, and part of that would probably be something of a return to the ways in which the elves lived a long, long time ago.

I can definitely see them, even generations down the line, not wanting a single solitary thing to do with Gondor or the neighbouring nations, though. Not only because they’d probably not think kindly on the other peoples of Middle Earth, but also because it would seem like a terrible risk. Send an envoy to Gondor? To Rohan? You might as well just cut the poor bastard’s head off yourself, and save them a trip.

Harad would probably be a better choice for eventually developing trade relations, the Haradrim having been at least allied with orcish forces in the past. So the orcs ‘vanish’ from ‘Middle Earth’, or at least the segment of Middle Earth which Tolkien’s histories are largely concerned with, but it’s not, ultimately, an unhappy ending for them, either. The most badly done-by people in Arda’s history finally have their chains broken, and go on to develop their own society, write their own histories, and become one of the pivotal peoples of the lands beyond the boundaries of Tolkien’s maps.

We just don’t hear about it because it has diddly fuck-all to do with Aragorn or the Shire.

amethystmarietm:

mirkwoodest:

mirkwoodest:

mirkwoodest:

One of the ballsiest things Tolkien ever did was write 473k words about some hobbits called frodo, sam, merry, and pippin and then write in the appendices that their names are actually maura, ban, kali, and razal. 

This just in: Eowyn and Eomer’s names actually start with the letter “L.” [source for other nerds

#wait so they have hobbitish names and common names?

No, they have Westron names and English names.

What you’ve got to understand is that everything Tolkien wrote was him pretending to merely translate ancient documents. He was writing as if the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were actually been written by Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam (or Bilba, Maura, and Ban) and he was just some random contemporary academic translating it all into English for us. 

There are many languages in his books, but generally speaking, everything written in English in the books is a translation of the language “Westron.” Therefore any names that come from Westron, he translated. Names coming from other languages, like Sindarin, he left as they were. Why? IDK. Maybe because the stories are from a hobbit perspective and hobbits speak Westron, so he wanted the Westron parts to sound familiar and the other languages/names to remain foreign? 

“But Mirkwoodest!” you cry, “The word ‘hobbit’ isn’t an English word! And the names Bilbo Baggins, Frodo Baggins, Samwise Gamgee, Peregrin Took, and Meriadoc Brandybuck” all sounds super weird and not like English at all!”

Psych! They are in English! (Or Old English, German, or Norse.) Once again you underestimate what a nerd Tolkien was. Let me break it down: 

In Westron, hobbits are actually called “kuduk,” which means “hole-dweller,” so for an English translation, Tolkien called them “hobbits” which is a modernization of the Old English word “holbytla” which comes from “Hol” (hole) and “Bytla”(builder)

“Maura” is a Westron name which means “Wise.” Weirdly enough, “Frodo” is an actual Proto-Germanic name that actual people used to have and it means the same thing. 

“Banazîr” is Westron for “half-wise, or simple.” In Proto Germanic, the prefix “Sam” means half, and wise is obviously a word we still use. 

“Razanur” means “Traveler” or “Stranger” which is also the meaning of the word “Peregrin(e)” This one is a twofer because  “Razar” means “a small red apple” and in English so does “Pippin.”

“Kalimac” apparently is a meaningless name in Westron, but the shortened form “Kali” means “happy,” so Jirt decided his nickname would be “Merry” and chose the really obscure ancient Celtic name “Meriodoc” to match. 

Jirt chose to leave “Bilba” almost exactly the same in English, but he changed the ending to an “O” because in Westron names ending in “a” are masculine. 

I’m not going to go on and talk about the last names but those all have special meanings too (except Tûk, which is too iconic to change more than the spelling of, apparently). 

The Rohirrim were also Westron speakers first and foremost, so their names are also “translations” into Old English and Proto-Germanic words, i.e. “Eowyn”  is a combination of “Eoh” (horse) and “Wynn” (joy/bliss)

“Rohirrim/Rohan” are Sindarin words, but in the books, they call themselves the “Éothéod” which is an Old English/Norse combo that means “horse people.” Tolkien tells us in the “Peoples of Middle Earth” that the actual Westron for “Éothéod” is Lohtûr, which means that Eowyn and Eomer’s names, which come from the same root word, must also start with the letter L. 

The names of all the elves, dwarves, Dunedain, and men from Gondor are not English translations, since they come from root words other than Westron. 

The takeaway from this is that when a guy whose first real job was researching the history and etymology of words of Germanic origin beginning with the letter “W” writes a book, you can expect this kind of tomfoolery.

Notes: Sorry I said “Razal” instead of “Razar” in my original post I’m a fraud. 

Further Reading: 

Rohirric , Westron 

Stuff like this is EXACTLY why I feel like there’s so much room for more diverse, inclusive reinterpretation of Tolkien’s work. Because if you look at the way Tolkien’s contemporaries translated real writings from real historical cultures, there’s a lot of assumption of whiteness, maleness, and heteronormativity that isn’t actually in the text. Going with the concept that Tolkien was translating the mythohistory of an existing culture, it makes sense that a white Catholic Oxford don born in the Edwardian era would take for granted that all beautiful highborn people are white, all male relationships are platonic, all marriages are heterosexual, most people in conventionally male roles are men, and everyone is cisgender. So it’s totally in keeping with Tolkien’s premise, I think, to approach his Middle-earth writings like, “Okay, what could be the real story here as opposed to how a white English dude born in 1903 would have translated it?”

mozalieri:

kaaatebishop:

eleemosynecdoche:

musicofthe-ainur:

Am I the only person who thought this was really fucking funny

A lot of the really funny moments in Lord of the Rings come from Tolkien playing with language like this, where we have relatively formal, archaic, “high” language responded to with informal, modern, “low” language. 

another hilarious example:

my absolute favorite example of tolkien switching registers in this way is

steakplissken:

bramblepatch:

geekandmisandry:

correspondingnerd:

nimium-amatrix-ingenii-sui:

martaaa1506:

That’s it, the Professor is truly the King of Sass

The letter didn’t come from the Nazi party, but from the publishing house which had expressed an interest in the German translation of The Hobbit. Tolkien’s response really is a thing of beauty, though, so it deserves to be quoted in its entirety:

25 July 1938                                              20 Northmoor Road, Oxford

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter. … I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject – which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.

Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearings whatsoever on the merits of my work or its suitability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung.

I trust you will find this reply satisfactory, and remain yours faithfully

J.R.R. Tolkien.

(Letter 30)

The Hobbit wasn’t published in German until 1957.

This might just be the politest “fuck you” ever written.

W.h.a.t.

Not just “I wish I had Jewish ancestors, but I don’t,” but also “you do realize that’s not what ‘Aryan’ actually means, right,” and “you guys are making it pretty hard to be proud of my German heritage.”

Nazis: Are you Aryan?

Noted linguistics freak Tolkien: Are you?

LOTR’s concept artists designed the films as a “journey back in time”

lotrfansaredorcs-the-white:

So (according to the concept art book) as the Fellowship travels deeper into Middle Earth, the places they pass through become inspired by progressively older periods of history. The farther along you are in the story, the more ancient the design influences

We begin in The Shire: which feels so familiar because, with its tea-kettles and cozy fireplaces, it’s inspired by the relatively recent era of rural England in the 1800s

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But when we leave Hobbiton, we also leave that familiar 1800s-England aesthetic behind and start going farther back in time. 

Bree is based on late 1600s English architecture

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Rohan is even farther back, based on old  anglo-saxon era architecture (400s-700s? ce)

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Gondor is way back, and no longer the familiar English or Anglo-Saxon: its design comes from classical Greek and Roman architecture

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And far far FAR back is Mordor. It’s a land of tents and huts: prehistoric, primitive, primeval. Cavemen times

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And the heart of Mordor is a barren lifeless hellscape of volcanic rock…like a relic from the ages when the world was still being formed,  and life didn’t yet exist

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And then they finally reach Mount Doom, which one artist described as 

“where the ring was made, which represents, in a sense, the moment of creation itself”

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queen0fheaven:

kgschmidt:

avelera:

sunspotpony:

prettyinpixiedust:

So one day a dwarf is talking to a human and finally realizes that when humans say woman, they generally mean “person who is theoretically capable of childbirth” because for whatever reason, humans assign social expectations based genital differences. (What a fucked up culture, the dwarf thinks.) But hey, better communication! So the next time the dwarf introduces theirself, they say, oh, by the way, I am what you call a “woman.”

And the trade negotiations just stop. They just stop cold. The tall people insist on speaking to the man, they insist on talking to the lady dwarf about all sorts of irrelevant bullshit, like recipes and childrearing and perfume

so the dwarf goes back home, enraged

and is like “BTW guess what happened, we’re all just going to be men forever now as far as the tall ones are concerned”

and everyone is justly horrified at this barbarism but they all agree to do whatever  it takes to squeeze those tall bastards for all the resources they are worth

and the dwarves get surlier, and the trade agreements less generous

and the tall people are all “what a miserable and greedy race”

but really they’re just still nursing a grudge about how goddamn backwards and sexist the tall people are

because their best negotiator, one of their sacred cave people, got snubbed the instant she said she was capable of childbirth – and a mortal insult like that can never be forgiven

Because Pi’s tags are great:

#yes good #personal headcanon: dwarves have fundamentally misunderstood human pronoun usage #and gender roles #they are very perplexed by it #eventually they went ‘fuck it apparently ‘he’ is the correct word’ #‘it’s their language and they keep using it for us’ #so then you have this situation where dwarves are cognizant of the words ‘mother’ and ‘wife’ #but not the usual use of ‘she’ secondary headcanon specific to Tolkien dwarves #dwarves that choose to bear children are held in high regard #because they are making new dwarves it is the ultimate craft #that’s what mahal did you made a new person #it is very impressive #everyone is impressed

Just as an additional thought, we hear that women dwarves generally stay within the mountain and are a protected, guarded subset of the dwarves. There’s not many of them, so there’s an implication that women dwarves are too precious to be allowed out.

But what if this too is a mistranslation? What if the dwarves were talking to the Men and when asked “where are all your women?” they hit a wall. They whisper amongst themselves, and eventually come back with a question, “What’s a woman?” The Men are incredulous.

“Why, the members of your race that bear children, of course!“ 

More dwarven whispering.

They reach the conclusion that Men mean dwarves who are currently pregnant. Well! Of course those dwarves are currently safe within the mountain, well cared for and generally loathe to travel until the child is born. The Men take this to mean that all dwarven women are discouraged from traveling, and that their primary purpose is childbearing. Dwarves find this a satisfactory outcome, especially with the way Men treat their women, and so even when the misunderstanding becomes clear to them they never correct it.

I have never converted to fan-canon so hard before.

I’m in love with this.

steakplissken:

bramblepatch:

geekandmisandry:

correspondingnerd:

nimium-amatrix-ingenii-sui:

martaaa1506:

That’s it, the Professor is truly the King of Sass

The letter didn’t come from the Nazi party, but from the publishing house which had expressed an interest in the German translation of The Hobbit. Tolkien’s response really is a thing of beauty, though, so it deserves to be quoted in its entirety:

25 July 1938                                              20 Northmoor Road, Oxford

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter. … I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject – which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.

Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearings whatsoever on the merits of my work or its suitability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung.

I trust you will find this reply satisfactory, and remain yours faithfully

J.R.R. Tolkien.

(Letter 30)

The Hobbit wasn’t published in German until 1957.

This might just be the politest “fuck you” ever written.

W.h.a.t.

Not just “I wish I had Jewish ancestors, but I don’t,” but also “you do realize that’s not what ‘Aryan’ actually means, right,” and “you guys are making it pretty hard to be proud of my German heritage.”

Nazis: Are you Aryan?

Noted linguistics freak Tolkien: Are you?